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Author Topic: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse  (Read 3172 times)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 02:03:23 PM »
:lol:
I wonder how long before someone tries to take it down
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 05:24:56 PM »
I'm a firm believer in Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of Religion, and I am quite happy to see this.  If they are going to allow sculptures and other references to certain religions, then all religions must be allowed to have their opportunities as well.

Who knows, perhaps this new statue in Tennessee will become a future Mecca for Pastafarians.  At the very least it might also help them generate a bit of tourism.  It's not many cities that can boast a statue of "His Noodliness"
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2008, 03:26:33 AM »
LOL aye roger.

Nothing for or against religion, but personally, I prefer no religious icons at all outside (or inside) secular legal institutions.
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2008, 03:33:25 AM »
wasnt a Pastafarian suspended from university for like a day because he dressed up like a pirate? :P
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2008, 07:53:36 AM »
Wow this "Religion" is new to me lols.
Well if every other religion can have statues, then this one should be no different no matter how obscure.

Personally i think Religion should stay away from certain places, such as Courts and Governments but oh well ^_^

I want to read up about this religion i have never heard of it before XD
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2008, 08:28:58 AM »
Crossville is just shy of an hour from me, I think, at most an hour and a half. I may have to go check this out.

And I agree, I think religious things in general should be out of courthouses and what not all together - but they never are. So if that's the case, may as well get some pastafarian stuff in there as well. :P

Oukanna, the Pastafarian thing is basically a joke religion made up to show how ridiculous other 'serious' religions are. In that, people always say, "Well prove me wrong, prove God (or whatever) doesn't exist." So with Pastafarianism people can say, "Well prove me wrong, prove his Noodlynees doesn't exist." It's used to show the flaw in that reasoning, that being the presenter of information you are the one burdened to provide proof you are right - not the other way around. Logically, anyone making a claim should be the one made to prove others wrong and themselves right.

Unfortunately it doesn't usually happen that way.
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2008, 10:45:57 AM »
Quote from: "Alpha Zezima"
wasnt a Pastafarian suspended from university for like a day because he dressed up like a pirate? :P
I think it was an elementary student, but I don't recall all the details.

I agree that the best option is to have no religious icons in government buildings, but even courts themselves have bibles for swearing oaths.  I wonder what a pastafarian does...swear over a can of Chefboyardee?

If you get time, check out the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and also check out the scores and scores of supporting comments written by intelligent, educated people.  I especially like this one:

Quote from: "Andy Parsons Ph.D"
“The riducule of FSMism by believers in ID is a beautifully ironic hypocracy. It is a classic case of faith-blindness and the worst of intellectual behaviour that can be observed in religion. In this instance the believers in ID run roughshod over the believers in FSMism by claiming their ‘Faith’ is correct and decrying the FSM ‘Faith’ as wrong. It is not possible to scientifically qualify ‘Faith’ and thus a comparison of ‘Faith’ in this fashion is meaningless and offensive. If no evidence can be provided to support either then both are equally valid or invalid, regardless of how angry or indignant the supporters may be. ”
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2008, 03:48:34 PM »
Quote from: "oukanna"
Wow this "Religion" is new to me lols.
I want to read up about this religion i have never heard of it before XD

Can find out all about it here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarianism

Basically it's a made up religion to show why creationism (intelligent design) shouldn't be taught in schools.

While I can understand why they put up the statue as a statement of freedom of speech, I disagree with them putting it in front of a courthouse. Even if it is a fake/joke religion, the fact is we have a separation of church and state in this country, they removed the ten commandments from a courthouse (big controversy not too long ago), so they should have to remove this.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2008, 07:01:23 PM »
Quote from: "Atom Action!"
Quote from: "oukanna"
Wow this "Religion" is new to me lols.
I want to read up about this religion i have never heard of it before XD

Can find out all about it here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastafarianism

Basically it's a made up religion to show why creationism (intelligent design) shouldn't be taught in schools.

While I can understand why they put up the statue as a statement of freedom of speech, I disagree with them putting it in front of a courthouse. Even if it is a fake/joke religion, the fact is we have a separation of church and state in this country, they removed the ten commandments from a courthouse (big controversy not too long ago), so they should have to remove this.


And this
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2008, 07:16:25 PM »
RAmen! :cheers:
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2008, 08:32:56 PM »
Quote from: "Atom Action!"
Basically it's a made up religion to show why creationism (intelligent design) shouldn't be taught in schools.
I didn't know that it was. I heard it was evolution that's taught in schools.
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2008, 08:52:40 PM »
Quote from: "Talia"
Quote from: "Atom Action!"
Basically it's a made up religion to show why creationism (intelligent design) shouldn't be taught in schools.
I didn't know that it was. I heard it was evolution that's taught in schools.
mostly, some states have it so creationism is taught alongside evolution, some people want only creationism taught, but under the name intelligent design, in certain states its a big issue.
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2008, 08:58:48 PM »
It's mostly just for mocking religion, but can also be used in religious debates and such.
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2008, 09:12:41 PM »
Quote from: "Atom Action!"
mostly, some states have it so creationism is taught alongside evolution.
Weird that schools can let the two directly contradict. In Singapore schools, neither evolution nor creationism is taught - it's up to the individual to go search that for herself/himself. Instead there's more focus on multi-races, cultures, religions and understanding for each one. Maybe the US should try that. There's no need to mock religion, nor absence of religion - it's a quarrel that has no end. Acceptance of either, and respect for individual opinion is better.
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2008, 10:04:20 PM »
Quote from: "Talia"
Quote from: "Atom Action!"
mostly, some states have it so creationism is taught alongside evolution.
Weird that schools can let the two directly contradict. In Singapore schools, neither evolution nor creationism is taught - it's up to the individual to go search that for herself/himself. Instead there's more focus on multi-races, cultures, religions and understanding for each one. Maybe the US should try that. There's no need to mock religion, nor absence of religion - it's a quarrel that has no end. Acceptance of either, and respect for individual opinion is better.

Well this could probably be in the debate forum (and will undoubtedly be-moved there :P ) the reason that public schools teach evolution is because of the mountains of scientific evidence, while still just a theory, people seem to get confused with the fact that in a scientific sense, a "theory" is basically fact. Gravity is a scientific theory, The earth revolving around the sun is a scientific theory, etc etc. Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion over evolution and a lot of people seem to think it tries to explain the origins of all matter and the universe, it does neither, it simply explains what happened once here. Because its a scientific theory, excepted by the vast majority of the scientific community (most notably biologists) with vast amounts of evidence, I strongly believe it should be taught in science classes. Its a secular theory and doesn't have anything to do with religion. The problem is intelligent design does have basis on religion, with no scientific bases or evidence, thus should not be taught in public schools, since we have a separation of church and state. I do however believe in freedom of religion (anyone who tries to deny someone elses freedom will eventually deny themselves their own freedom) so I don't mind people professing to believe in intelligent design and even challenging evolutionist, but until there is scientific evidence in it, it shouldn't be taught in secular institutions.

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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2008, 10:15:20 PM »
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Re: Flying Spaghetti Monster statue at Tennessee courthouse
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2008, 12:23:51 AM »
Quote from: "Atom Action!"
mostly, some states have it so creationism is taught alongside evolution, some people want only creationism taught, but under the name intelligent design, in certain states its a big issue.
Actually, from what I know, it is very few states that have tried to endorse teaching ID in public schools, with Kansas being one of the few that tried it.  When they did, they caused a massive uproar, even among religious advocates because it clearly is a violation of separation of church and state.

What most ID proponents seem to continually ignore is that evolution is just a theory founded upon real measurements and observations.  As Atom mentioned, Gravity is a similar kind of theory which is also founded upon real measurements and observations.  If you want to discount evolution, then you also need to discount gravity, since the method of arriving at both of these theories uses the same underlying scientific method of collecting data, analyzing it, and then arriving at a hypothesis.

In order to demonstrate completeness of understanding and/or the power of their god(s), most religions have tried to offer explanations for just about everything, including the origin of life, the age of the earth and universe, where the earth fits into the sky and so forth.  However, when most modern major religions were founded, human understanding of many of those details was rather limited.  In addition, the math and science of that time was primitive at best, and not equipped to provide those details.  Many religious theories on how the universe, earth and life began have resorted to unmeasurable and unprovable statements made by and/or recorded by our ancestors in ancient times, written using the words, conjectures and basic understandings applicable to that period of time.  

As our understanding of the world has evolved, many long-held religious beliefs have been found to be incorrect.  For example, at one time, the Catholic Church believed that the sun revolved around the earth, but Copernicus and Galileo eventually demonstrated that to be incorrect.  As our understanding of the world and universe continues to broaden, scientific theories continually adapt to those new pieces of data.  At the same time, this new found knowledge often challenges many long-held beliefs.  Unfortunately, most religions tend to be rather fixed and unable to adapt to this continually increasing knowledge and understanding of our universe.  When conflicts arise between observable data vs. religious dogma, religions face the difficult choice of either admitting that they were wrong (such as when earth-centric views were eventually dropped), or trying to fight a difficult battle of faith vs. real world data.

Believing various religious claims written ages ago to be true is a matter of faith.  Almost every religion requires its followers to believe and have faith in certain things that can't be proven, some of which might seem rather ridiculous when viewed from an analytical perspective.  If someone claims to "have faith" in something, they are essentially saying, "This can't be proven, but I believe it anyway."  Choosing to believe in this or that is fine so long as people keep their religious beliefs to themselves.  However, when someone tries to impose their beliefs upon someone else, which is exactly what ID supporters are trying to do, then we have a problem.  The serious issues that result from this type of behavior are what led our wise forefathers to create a nation with separation of church and state in the first place.
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